Just another Viper thread

[funky]

I´m also one of the lucky guys already having this great tutorial.
As I don´t wanna hi-jack richdj and hipcheck´s thread I simply started a new one :)

Here´s my progress so far and still lots of work to do:

http://www.funky-gfx.com/temp/viper_wip_01.jpg

http://www.funky-gfx.com/temp/viper_wip_02.jpg


I really love that tutorial. Very well explained!
Kevin´s way of modelling is pretty easy and very effective :thumbsup:

[Pablogrca]

No problem with making a new post Funky the more the merrier. :biggrin:

Nice work so far, it's looking really sharp! :thumbsup:

You know what? I have a question that anyone can answer, it may be really stupid but it's something I haven't learned yet or maybe I did but it hasn't dawned on me how to do it.
Question: How is that style of render done? I mean the soft look with no specular highlights. I see a lot of artists use it and I think it would be really cool to render all types of vehicles like that. Is it global lumination? because thats what it looks like to me. And are the textures done differently also? No specular or gloss ect added. Thanks

[JasC33]

That looks fantastic Funky:thumbsup:
Good question Pablo.

[richdj]

Funky, nice viper.. keep us posted with the updates...

Pablo, good question and I'm far from an expert on texturing and rendering, but (there always is a but) it could be done using area lights, GI should work, I think? (I must re-read nich boughans book)... or Ambient Occlusion, which can be found HERE (http://www.informatik.hu-berlin.de/~goetsch/AmbOcc/) and a certain person, now what was his name???????? Oh, yep got it, Kev, wrote a little tutorial on ambient occlusion which can be found HERE (http://www.kevman3d.com/lightwave.asp?section=tutorials).. As for the specularity, don't add any spec or reflection, and keep the colours simple, no neon...

Anyhoo, I'm sure someone will correct me...

Rich

[funky]

Hey, thanks for ur comments!

Question: How is that style of render done?
Is it global lumination?

I have to learn lighting myself, thats why I often use this "so easy to setup but cool lookin style" :wink:

U are right it´s just a simple Global Illumination (backdrop radiosity in this case) render.

Set up a gradient in ur backdrop (strg+f5) from light grey to darker grey.
Under the composition tab (two riders to the right) I loaded a white image for my background, which doesn´t affect the rendering process, but looks better then seeing the gradient in the background (my opinion ;) )

Now select lights on the bottom (shift+L) hit p for properties -> global illumination
check enable radiosity
switch type to backdrop radiosity.
I used the standard 4X12 rays per evaluation.
This setting can increase/decrease rendertimes, but affects the final image quality as well of course. A lower setting results in a noisier look. (dunno if this is the right english word for it just check it out urself :) )

For antialiasing I used PLD-5.
Finally turn off the lights so the whole scene gets illuminated through the backdrop only.

Hit F9 voila.
Very easy isn´t it?

P.S
And are the textures done differently also?
As Rich already wrote they are just in different shades of grey thats all, no spec, gloss or anything else. Haven´t touched anything except for the smoothing angles in the viper surfaces.

greetz
andy

[DAVID WEBSTER]

Welcome Andy,some fine work and thanks for explaining your set up,lookforward to more updates.
Regards Dave.

[Joerg]

Hi Andy

Welcome on board (in the flying squadron :) )
Looks really nice, I can't wait to see how quick your progress is!


JJ

[hipcheck]

1 more for the squadron!

Looks awesome! Great job!

i think what i really need to get good renders is a mini tutorial on taking it from modeler to layout. i literally have not even opened that app yet... not to hijack, but anyone got any good ideas on that? feel free to post them to my thread! thanks!

keep going Andy! this one looks fabulous!

[richdj]

Hipcheck, this might help.. check out Newtek tutes (http://www.newtek.com/lightwave/tutorials/index.php) theres some surfaceing tutes at the top and some rendering ones at the bottom..

Rich

[Pablogrca]

Thanks Rich and Funky<~~He's soooo funkkkyyyyy. :biggrin:
A good tut on this style rendering has always managed to ellude me for some reason. I mean, I love the color spec and gloss renders but this ones always been really cool to me too. Thanks again guys
HipCheck there are a lot of websites out there that you can get free tuts textures models ect.... Just about anything you need, all you need to do is put on your wet suit and go surfing. :biggrin: Do a search for free LW tutorials and see what you get. :rockandro

[Joerg]

here a quick light setup for the lazy guys!

replace only the boxes in the scene with your objects and done


JJ

[DAVID WEBSTER]

Wow JJ instant lighting straight from the tin.I won't be useing it just yet need to learn a lot more,but nice to know its there if needed :thumbsup:
Regards Dave.
PS glad to hear your a beer drinker, come on over to the peterborough beer festival and sample 100's of different beers:drool:

[Joerg]

Dave, let me know when the festival is! :biggrin:
A flight from here to the UK is not too expensive.

edit.: I think we should start a new thread, will funkys thread not bother with off-topic stuff


JJ

[funky]

no need start a new one joerg just use this one I don´t have a problem with that :)

[Joerg]

thanks funky

but I think we need a new section to post things like this :wink:
where are you from?
which region of Germany?


JJ

[funky]

not that far away from Duisburg ;)
I´m from Jülich (between Aachen and Düren) that´s where my parents still live.
But I´m studying in Fulda (~100km from Frankfurt)

[Joerg]

Good to know!
We have here a Lightwave Usergroup in Duisburg, we meet us each month (mostly) maybe you make sometime a stop here in Duisburg, come and join in :wink: :biggrin: :sing: :buttrock:

hey UK members, you all invited too!!!!


JJ

[funky]

I already visited ur site. We´ll see :)

btw. just a tiny update on the connection part.

http://www.funky-gfx.com/temp/Viper_wip_03.jpg

[Joerg]

WOW

Looks very good, I love this gray stuff, it looks sometimes better as textured stuff!


JJ

[richdj]

Wow JJ instant lighting straight from the tin.I won't be useing it just yet need to learn a lot more,but nice to know its there if needed :thumbsup:
Excellent JJ...

PS glad to hear your a beer drinker, come on over to the peterborough beer festival and sample 100's of different beers:drool:

Count me in....

Funky... Excellent nurnies:clap:

Rich

[kevman3d]

This is great stuff! I like that there's another 'take' on the bits 'between' the engines :biggrin: - I think from looking about they're supposedly the fuel lines...

Keep those updates coming - This is great stuff, everybody so far has just impressed me with how fast they're doing this tute... And making a damn fine job at the same time...

I wonder if Wes should have called it 'Advanced' on that DVD cover now, cause its obviously not hard enough... lol! :wink:

Kev.

[kevman3d]

Looks very good, I love this gray stuff, it looks sometimes better as textured stuff!


I agree - The whole radiosity look with flat greys looks slick... I used the same radiosity approach to render a few images for the DVD cover (plus a few wireframes).

In fact, for my old Viper I created (http://www.kurvstudios.com/forum/showthread.php?t=629) before this DVD, I found grey, some fractal noise and SGAmbOcc works great to get a dirty old engine look. Saves on image maps, that's for sure! (There's a tip for texturing up some of the inner engine blocks. Worth a try...)

Amazing what a few fractals and SGAmbOcc can do (http://www.kurvstudios.com/forum/showthread.php?t=923) for a grey surface...


Kev.

[Pablogrca]

<~~~Feels left out, nobody invited him to the parties. :frown: :biggrin:

[funky]

@Kevin
I checked your old viper thread and I saw that most of the parts seem to be build with subpatches. My question ,after u did one viper with subd´s and one almost without, is what do u prefer and why?

I often have a problem to decide wether to use subds or not.
Most of the time it´s a pain in the ass for me to add detail to a subd mesh as well as achieving sharp edges/corners where u can´t use bandsaw and freezing the mesh before adding detail isn´t always a good decision.

Hopefully Edges+Edgeweight will solve some of these problems, when it´s full integrated into lw9.X


P.S
I´m not able to work further on my model until monday :/ so no updates till then.
And I have to play The Elder Scrolls IV - Oblivion as well :biggrin:
Anybody else into gaming over here?

[kevman3d]

@Kevin
I checked your old viper thread and I saw that most of the parts seem to be build with subpatches. My question ,after u did one viper with subd´s and one almost without, is what do u prefer and why?

SubD's are a great way to model flowing smooth shapes - Like cars, organics, etc. However reviewing the ship, it just doesn't have that much 'organic' flow... Also, when I modelled the first ship, I thought approaching with SubD's would be quick and easy for generating a 'round edged fuselage' - But to get a hard body look, I had to knife and bandsaw a lot, sculpt edges, etc to get the shape. I also wanted to cut sharp insets and panels into it, so I froze it which created a LOT of geometry that I then spent time cleaning up with bandglue...

Overall, it took a lot longer to create - I figured that it was 'OK' as a method, but it didn't feel very tidy imho. As a tutorial, I figured it would frustrate people, and well, it wasn't that 'great' in the end anyway.

So, I rethought the process when I started the DVD - I refined the way I modelled the ship by reviewing the physical model I had here, and came up with what I did for the DVD - Which imho is much faster, cleaner and efficient then how I did the first one... (Look just how quickly simple geometry and the Rounder tool can create the fuselage :biggrin: )

I often have a problem to decide wether to use subds or not.

Its always the case in a lot of projects - Choosing what approach will be the better one. Often I'll start one way, then part way through I'll suddenly realise I could have done it easier if I'd started another way.

Most of the time it´s a pain in the ass for me to add detail to a subd mesh as well as achieving sharp edges/corners where u can´t use bandsaw and freezing the mesh before adding detail isn´t always a good decision.

Yes. Exactly the point for hardbody models like this ship. And yes, its a pain - and just why I rethought the modelling process before starting the DVD cause I didn't want to force people to model inefficiently or awkwardly... And I didn't want to drag myself through the original 'process' all over again either! lol! :p

And I have to play The Elder Scrolls IV - Oblivion as well :biggrin:
Anybody else into gaming over here?

lol! Ah, I love seeing that you have your priorities in order... :D I hardly ever play games - I tend to either be online, or on LightWave. I'm a boring old fart... :clap:

[funky]

Hey thanks for your answer Kevin! I´m glad u chose the normal poly way for this tut and I also think it suits the object very well in this case.
Can´t wait to get back to my LW-Comp to continue the modelling process :biggrin:


greetz
andy

[JasC33]

Fantastic Detail Andy, Great Render too.:clap:

[Pablogrca]

:thumbsup: Another great render of the Viper!!! :clap: Nice work Andy!!! :thumbsup:

[hipcheck]

excellent stuff!
keep going it looks great!

[funky]

Just a little update on the wings and the guns.
I think some of the wingnurnies are a bit thick
and I´m not that happy with the gun so far, will probably redo it when the the rest of the model is finished


http://www.funky-gfx.com/temp/Viper_wip_05.jpg

http://www.funky-gfx.com/temp/Viper_wip_06.jpg

http://www.funky-gfx.com/temp/Viper_wip_07.jpg


greetz
andy

[DAVID WEBSTER]

Really good Andy,i'm sure you will go ahead and do the changes to the areas you are not happy with,but i think they look fine i suppose the great thing about this tutorial is that you can personalize to how you want it look so why should'nt they stand proud a bit,i look at one of those wing nurnies and i see a hatch lid to some electrical access point,but its your model you do whatever you think looks right.
Great work regards Dave.

[funky]

thanks a lot for those kind words Dave !! :)

[richdj]

Funky.... What can I say.... Excellent work, love the nurnies and the gun.. You have made this your own.. I expect to see you do a collection of nurnies, after the viper....

Rich

[JasC33]

looks Fantastic Andy. Everything looks fine to me.:thumbsup:

[Joerg]

EXCELLENT STUFF ANDY :thumbsup: :sing: :buttrock: and I have the Viper DVD not in my shelf :banghead:


JJ

[kevman3d]

Nice personalised stuff going on here!

I like the gun - Though the only thing I can say is that perhaps its jammed a little to tightly against the fuselage - It could be that its a little to big, or perhaps the wing edge is too far inwards.

One thing you can do is simply move the wing out a little more to give a little more gap, then play around with the join into the engines on the side (add some connection nurnies, etc, if you think it would look good).

But very nice work dude... Looking great! Looking forward to seeing what else you come up with! :biggrin:

[Pablogrca]

:clap: Really nice work Andy!!! :thumbsup:

[funky]

thanks to everybody for your comments!

perhaps its jammed a little to tightly against the fuselage - It could be that its a little to big, or perhaps the wing edge is too far inwards.
yap I moved the wing out a little bit and added a pipe-nurnie-structure to the join into the engine...but the gun looks still to big ;)

Added the tailfin as well and rebuild the engine exhaust


http://www.funky-gfx.com/temp/Viper_wip_11.jpg



http://www.funky-gfx.com/temp/Viper_wip_12.jpg

[v3rlon]

Nice work! I like the added detail on the thrusters.

[richdj]

:rockandro Love those engine exhaust....

Rich

[JasC33]

Wow!...Looks great Andy:thumbsup:Nice detail on the exhausts:clap:
And congrats, for being on the front page. Well deserved.

[DAVID WEBSTER]

Great detail on the exhaust, well done for making front page.:thumbsup:
Regards Dave.

[kevman3d]

yap I moved the wing out a little bit and added a pipe-nurnie-structure to the join into the engine...but the gun looks still to big ;)

Added the tailfin as well and rebuild the engine exhaust

Cool exhaust! As for big guns - Could be a problem, you'll definitely need bigger ammo... :biggrin:

What you can try is simply stretching it on its width and height - But leave the length (as it looks right). That should look ok. Otherwise mount the gun under the wing, and build some cool nurnies to 'connect' it... There's another idea...

But keep it up, you're pretty much almost finished from what I see. Nice work...

[hipcheck]

excellent work!
gratz on the front page!
keep it up!

[Pablogrca]

Very NICE work Andy :thumbsup: ...Good work on taking the tutorial a step or two forward and making it different and making it your own.

"Take what you learn and do something better with it." A very good practice. :)

Oh, and CONGRATULATIONS on making FRONT PAGE!!! :clap:

[funky]

Hi again,

Thanks a lot for your comments and of course for front page ! :)

I have 2 little updates and my Viper is almost done.
Rebuild the Guns (like them much more than my first attempt :) )
and I finished the "Rear Nurnies".

So here we go:

http://www.funky-gfx.com/temp/Viper_wip_13.jpg

http://www.funky-gfx.com/temp/Viper_wip_14.jpg

I also finished the base plating.
Missing@moment: Fuselage runners + panels

[richdj]

:rockandro Excellent updates....

Rich

[Pablogrca]

:clap: Great looking work!!! :thumbsup:

[JasC33]

Wow...Fantastic stuff Andy.:thumbsup:

[DAVID WEBSTER]

Andy great work, nurnies looking great :thumbsup:
Regards Dave

[funky]

So finally it´s done!

Made a little 320*240 Quicktime (sorensen3) 360° rotation which can be
watched here (http://www.funky-gfx.com/temp/Viper_ani_01.mov)


I wish to thank Kevin again for this superb tutorial. This is one of the best tuts I have ever done. :clap:

-Cool object!!!!

-Lessons are splitted really nice with approx. 10-15min / vid
(much better than 2h lessons without a pause)

- Lots of new (at least for me) useful tools

- Very easy to follow


I´m trying to build the cockpit at moment with some avionics, pilot stick and stuff like that.
Will post an image if I come up with something useful ^^

btw:
I totally suck on texturing that´s why I´m really lookin forward to the texturing part (any sneak peeks so far kevin? :biggrin:)

[richdj]

Excellent.... Looking forward to your cockpit..

Rich

[DAVID WEBSTER]

Excellent work Andy,model looks fantastic please post cockpit pics:buttrock:
Regards Dave.

[Pablogrca]

That really looks good Andy, can't wait to see the cockpit :thumbsup:

[JasC33]

That's looking Great Andy. looking forward to the Cockpit.:thumbsup:

[funky]

I built in some Avionics here´s what it looks like right now:

http://www.funky-gfx.com/temp/Viper_Cockpit_wip_01.jpg


http://www.funky-gfx.com/temp/Viper_Cockpit_wip_02.jpg

I´m sure there could be a ton of other instruments, but due to the fact that almost everything is hidden under the canopy frame (which I still have to build, cause I altered the shape of the original one) I´ll stop here unless I´m planning to do a shot from within the cockpit

[richdj]

Funky, that looks excellent... My only crit and I'm nit picking is that the seat looks too solid for it's depth, either make it slimmer or make it comfier...

Rich

[DAVID WEBSTER]

Great food for thought Andy when i get round to doing mine, have you based it on an actual cockpit---love it:thumbsup:
Regards Dave

[kevman3d]

Wow... Cool - I was going to say 'If you're finished the Viper, you could try modelling a cockpit' :)

As for the texturing - I don't have any previews I can post on me, but I can give you a time frame. I hope to complete and have the Texturing DVD over to Kurv by the end of April. I do apologise that its still in development and that you guys have to wait on me to get things done... But given people are whipping through this stuff, I need to have this done real soon or I'll have a riot on my hands! :biggrin:

Briefly, the DVD will cover exporting reference for the textures (like the UV maps we create at the end of the modelling DVD) and then the types of maps and details that I like to apply to my Viper (and of course, will always be completely open to your own artistic licensing).

I'm trying to keep it as generic as possible in terms of paint techniques I use so that you can do this in most paint packages (well, ones that support layers and saving to PSD format - Those will probably be my only pre-requisites in terms of what features your software needs to have) and am going to make an assumption that people will already know how to use their own paint software of choice.

I have looked at a handful of great free software you can use if you don't have a commercial piece of software. I may include a brief video looking at these as well.

As for the maps - We're talking paint, signage, panels and details. Then we look at 'griming' it up, creating control maps for specularity, etc. I'll also do a little texturing with procedurals and gradients too. I'll cover applying the maps, adding extra procedural details, using some free shaders like SGAmbOcc, and the things I do when working on this kind of project.

Ideally - If you have a Tablet (like a cheap Graphire, or one of those 512-pressure level cheapies) that will also be very useful, but if you're handy with a Mouse (and I know some people who are) then that's OK...

Hopefully it will be as easy to follow, and as informative as the modelling one, and be a great way to get those Vipers 'render-ready' for action! I will try and also squeeze in a few rendering tips too just to finish things up...

But end of April is the deadline I'm working to get things done by...

[funky]

seat looks too solid for it's depth, totally agree have to check on this


have you based it on an actual cockpit No not really just googled for some cockpit pics to get some ideas.


I do apologise that its still in development and that you guys have to wait on me to get things done
Kevin there´s really no need to apologize take all the time you need!!!
Thanks a lot for all the info given, I´m sure everybody who bought the modelling tut is really lookin forward to it.



Oh by the way....I couldn´t resist to build a launch tunnel, after I have seen the latest galactica episodes :D

U can watch it here (http://www.funky-gfx.com/temp/TakeOff_04.mov)

[kevman3d]

Oh by the way....I couldn´t resist to build a launch tunnel, after I have seen the latest galactica episodes

lol! Hey, that's very cool! That's exactly the same thing I did once I created my Viper... Send it down a launch tube.

I posted a pile of old stuff, plus a couple of Quicktime movies on SpinQuad with anims... You can browse that here (http://www.spinquad.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8962) - BTW, compare my original Vipers less 'efficient' wireframe in this thread to the one on the DVD. It was a little messier to build, and lots more work. (started life mostly using SubPatching then freezing)

Though in a way I guess that doing something a second time makes a difference once you've worked out all the kinks... :biggrin:

[funky]

WOW!
The textured Viper in this spinquad thread is awesome! :rockandro
So are the animations u posted over there.

Looks like an actual shot from Zoic....
Come on Kevin your are working on Season3 of BSG right now aren´t you? :biggrin:

[-NG-]

Great stuff so far! Looking really slick. :)

This is a must have dvd, great stuff kev, always wanted to learn to model that viper model.

[hipcheck]

looks great! my only crit is that the stick looks like it might be quite a reach for the pilot. looks like it may come down near the knees or lower... could just be me tho. anyway it all looks quite awesome! great job!

:buttrock: :clap: :rockandro :clap:

[kurv]

Wow, this looks great man!!!!

Amazing!!